Bocchiere has illegally edited the claims for the SSM swords against Kirigakure's will or demand and claimed not one sword, but 4 swords in which were distributed illegally to other players on the site without our knowledge or consent. We have gathered proof to show our case that what has happened should not be tolerated under any circumstances as an admin of this wiki and should further be stripped from all rights and priviledges. If the community as a whole agrees with this, then it would further help the site to choose someone who would not abuse their power and threaten people with bans or warnings. Thank you.
Proof will be posted in conjunction soon, so please bear with me until then.
Edit 1: Tampering with the SSM swords and illegally distributing after my edit is a breach of rights when the swords are sealed away. Photo evidence of my edit has been taken.
Edit 2: I said I would make a second edit when the swords were illegally altered, in which again he distributed them to his buddies. It should be noted that those named shall be excluded from the talk due to the ties with this.
The theft was not done legit, through RP. But the truth of the matter is they were not inactive, they were not yours to do with as you choose, and the edits need to be put back. YOU STOP THE EDIT WAR YOU STARTED.
I've returned the two swords my characters had out of pity and the scrolls goes to Shadow or Ryoji, whoever wants it. So I no longer have any stake in this. You all know my opinion on the matter as a wiki staff member and the decision I've made regarding the inactivity clause. If Xia wants to continue to debase himself till the other two feel bad enough to return their swords that's up to him.
Because of the nature of the previous threads, I'm going to create a poll on the forum regarding this inactivity rule; this poll will stay open for a week or two (Spring Break is up and bouncing). It will be fairly simple; agree or disagree to make this inactivity "rule" official. Regardless of whether it has been put into action before, from every source that I have seen regarding this regulation, it was never officially made a rule, only agreed upon by some to be in effect.
This poll is not about reversing what you've done here on the wikia; you've already returned two of the swords and Kiri can just claim the other swords and simply declare the claims on here regarding the swords to be illegitimate, boycott the wikia, etc. This poll is about going forward, and seeing whether this inactivity clause is to be kept or thrown out.
Well, I believe it is time I put my two cents into this, because this topic has gotten off the main subject.
Harassment is defined as "aggressive pressure or intimidation." Bocchiere, you have no right to state that they are "harassing" you when you have forced others to do things your way, or not at all. Here, again, you are attempting to do that, but this trial is not simply about the swords, it is about your behavior since the very beginning of your administration. This is our formal complaint- not harassment- and you essentially have no choice but to listen and shape up, or ship out. This is an informal democracy, not a monarchy, as you so seem to believe. Why this has become primarily about the swords, I do not know, but it’s only partially relevant to the actual situation here.
First, allow me to address this post I happened to stumble upon and point out all the hypocritical statements you have made, followed by examples that I have personally witnessed.
[Forum post made March 5, 2016 by Bocchiere]
"The rules are the rules . . ." Okay, then explain why you have been bending them to your needs and then straightening them out when you are ready to use them against someone else? For example, your "Wiki War" policy you seem to have adopted for the sole purpose of stopping people from removing your edits on the Claimed List. Granted, some wars have started in the past due to disputes, but you have taken it too far. You have quite literally started a number of them as of late and threatened the editors with temporary and permanent bans. Let us not forget poor Yomi, whose single act of editing resulted in her banning from the site for several days (a week, I believe). Now, you and your lovely little friends may argue "I (He) told her no edit warring and she edited the list anyway, so it is not unfair, it is following the rules." Permit me to be blunt in saying that you are wasting your time in even trying to argue that. The techniques you removed were not discussed- at all. I read you "Cleaning up the Claimed List" post on the forum and nowhere did you say anything about the removal of those jutsu (unless I have missed something, then please send me a link). Yomi was not in the wrong. Did you even bother to tell her what you were doing? You are both working together, so are you communicating with one another at all? I doubt it, because her banning would not have happened in the first place.
Moving on, ". . . the unclaimed swords were given to new people." That's great and all, but how about you try not being biased and giving them to your dear friends? You scream about compromise and yet I see no attempt at trying to do so, and do not bring up that “RP that we stole it” excuse as “compromise,” because unless you actually RP stealing them, Kirigakure has no reason to hunt your carcass down; instead, you give the rather hopeless secondary excuse that "Kiri never compromises." Did you expect them to take this any better? Honestly, this was just an attempt to stir up the metaphorical hornet nest if I have ever seen it. If you want compromise, why did you not make an attempt to give the swords to people before giving them to other people? Better yet, why did you not make a forum/wiki post about it, or speak with one of the sword holders about your idea of giving their items away? I was inclined to simply remove the swords from the list altogether when I saw this behavior, but I stopped myself and decided I had held my tongue on this matter long enough. The list of reasons you should be removed is getting longer. Mistakes can be made, yes, but when you begin to act tyrannical, it's time for a change.
Next, "As we see from the go at least, Kiri is going with the tried and true, 'Screw you everything is done our way.' They've relied on for the past decade or so. The controlling majority does not seem open to any compromise. It's either exactly what they want or nothing." So, I've already touched on this compromise bit, but I will hit it again, because this is just too hypocritical for me to stomach. So, you are saying that Kiri never compromises, yet you are one of the very people that never wants to compromise with anyone. In fact, I do believe you have stated two or three times in this very discussion that your decisions were "not up for discussion." Interesting, so our Wiki overlord does not want to be questioned and refuses to let his actions be disputed? That is . That is . So quick to point the finger, yet oblivious to the fact that it can be pointed right back at you. Again, I will voice the idea that, perhaps, you should (strongly) consider removing your dear friends from the list and seeking out someone (anyone) to give them to in Kiri. They are Kirigakure's swords and no one seemed to have a problem with that except you and your backup, because it benefitted you to have an issue with it. No, Bocchiere, people have not been "afraid" to say anything to Kirigakure in fear of being verbally attacked, they have not said anything because no one other than you cared what they did with swords. Allow me to point back at a post you made about the Konoha Chakra Blade in order to further cement my point here:
[Forum post made on October 16, 2015 by Bocchiere]
Alright, first and foremost, this was posted to compare that situation with this one. Granted, the blade is not that special, but that is not the point. My point is that the Seven Swords are very special and belong solely to Kirigakure, and no one that was given one of these swords (illegally) is part of Kirigakure, and, based on his own wording of the above post, they should not have it in the first place if not part of the village; perhaps they were at some point, but they are not anymore and should have no right to hold one. But wait- there is more. Because Bocchiere has even stated that these swords are "not that special" and that even his own custom swords are better than them, they could be considered 'standard' weapons. According to your post, they should not even be on the Claimed List, and no one other than Kirigakure's forces should try claiming them because the swords are from Kirigakure. took the Konoha Chakra Blade down based on the aforementioned reasons, so the swords should not even be up there for you to claim in the first place. So why are they? Because they belong to an elite force that has earned them. Neither you, nor your friends, has earned them and no one else has either- they belong to Kirigakure and are theirs to do with as they please. Now that this whole "compromise" issue has been thoroughly beaten, I'll move to the fact that it was stated Kirigakure uses the "tried and true" method of "my way or the highway," in essence, according to the previous post. I feel as if I'm repeating myself here when I say that you are the exact same way. The "Wiki War" policy is one way that you mask this nature.
Ah, but my post is not done yet. Let us move on to other things you have done that warranted this trial in the first place. I will, however, be repeating myself multiple times, so bear with me.
I will address this first part of "It is not open for discussion" in regards to edits you have made. Do you not see the error in this statement? I will explain it regardless to make the point stronger. This statement proves you are unfit to have any administrative power on this site, because regardless of what you think is your job, barring people from making edits against your wishes is not part of the job description. They have rights and you are revoking them. It is actually open for discussion, because that is how the site is run. You cannot choose who is and is not permitted to make edits, and you certainly have no authority to threaten people for no reason, like Kayenta or Xia. Not only is this statement revealing of your abuse in power, it also says to the players of the community that you don’t have enough respect for them to even listen to what they have to say, despite the fact that they may very well have a decent argument.
"Giving claims to friends without the consent of holders." Yes, you have just broken a Wiki rule. Congrats. Not only are you displaying favoritism, you are also showing you have no respect for the rules. This particular paragraph will tie in the inactivity clause you seem so fond of waving around, so let's get to it. First of all, your friends do not qualify for the swords based on previously explained evidence: the swords belong to Kirigakure and you have illegally attempted to distribute them. Yet for some reason you have just up and given them to your friends- seems like a politician giving his friends roles in government policy, regardless of their qualifications. Not only is that not attempting to compromise with Kirigakure at all (see previous paragraphs), it's showing favoritism (something an administrator should not be doing) and you are disobeying Wiki rules. How? Simple. The "inactivity clause" you so fondly wielded into battle states that people who are inactive for (roughly) sixty to ninety days (I've always heard it as ninety and there is no 'set' time) both in RP and OOCly can have their claimed items revoked, but wait! Gitsune has pulled out the swords and used them on more than one occasion, and is an active member of the community, so what gives? Oh, so you don't consider that appropriate reasoning because...
Au contraire! That is the very definition of activity: "The condition in which things are happening or being done." It is not a "loophole" when the user has participated in public spars and RPs and used the swords on various occasions in the public view. That is actively using an item, and she is not waiting the day before time is up to do it; she does this frequently, to my understanding. It would be different if she never used the sword in public, but she has. Coupled with this and the eye-witness testimony of not only myself, but any individual that has zoned with her, your point is invalid and you are therefore breaking Wiki rules by giving a claimed item away. That alone should get you banned from your administrative position for an extended period of time, not to mention all of these other transgressions.
On to my next point: banning Yomi for a single edit. I will repeat myself on this point, because this was absolutely abhorrent on your part. Yes, you can claim you warned everyone not to start an edit war, but it was you who started it in the first place, if memory serves. Edit warring is simply removing or undoing the edit of another person- at least, that is apparently your definition of it. Did you even stop to think that she had no idea why things were missing and just tried to fix them? Did you even bother to consider that she may have thought the list broke (as it has in the past) and made an effort to return it to its original state (as she has done in the past)? Another important question would be: did you communicate with her to tell her what was going on? I'll answer that with a because I am certain you did not, or it would not have happened in the first place. You seem to have forgotten that Yomi is still your co-administrator, so you have to treat her properly, or else you are violating all sorts of standards that can get you removed. As it stands, you violated those standards of treatment by removing her ability to perform her job.
Now, we have come to the end of my list of issues with your actions, but there is a couple more things that are nagging me. First of all, you have mentioned multiple times that a vague amount of "people" have issues with Kirigakure, think the swords should be distributed, and so on. I'm not asking for the names of these people, but if the community at large is unaware of what you're talking about, it's safe to say that these "people" are your supporters- your friends. Their opinions are not the community's majority opinion, so cease using them to push your agenda. Post forum inquiries and wiki discussions about topics to get an actual feel for what people think, because I see no topic on the forum where the "majority" of people have stated that the swords need to be distributed to anyone on the site so that they are active (at least not a recent, or topic-appropriate one). Again, you are pushing your own agenda and again I say that you should seek to compromise (if absolutely nothing else) by distributing the swords (I do not know how many times I have to reiterate this simple solution). Another thing I have a problem with is the fact you are blatantly ignoring our accusations, or pushing blame elsewhere;Kirigakure is not on trial. We are talking about current transgressions and what have done to earn the ire of SL in terms of administrative decisions.
That's all I have to say, and I will observe the results. Good luck, ladies and gentlemen.
Alright, this has swerved off topic. I will remind everyone that this is about whether Bocc is still effective as an admin or not. I understand that the topic touches whatever is happening in our main site but again, the discussion should be more about his ability or inability to handle the job here in the wikia.
With this in mind, I will be opening another topic where people can cast their votes whether to retain him or not as an admin. Everyone is encouraged to participate and voice their opinions there while keeping in mind to stay on topic.
What can I say? You all tell me why I did these things for awful selfish reasons and I could write a 20 page diatribe explaining them again and you'd just say you don't believe me or I'm lying to suit my own gains.
People like Kiri having been gaming the system on this site for years to get away with whatever they could and all I see from this situation is that someone who has no qualms about knocking their bs down has gained a little bit of power over them, that being the wiki admin spot as insignificant as that is, and they're terrified that their ride is over. All that's left is to find out if they are the majorty or not I guess.
In the interests of keeping the voting thread clear, I would like to see comments about votes and remarks that voters make be left out of the voting thread.
As a voter, each person has the right to put forth their vote, and their thoughts on the matter at hand, without having to be subject to the verbal accusations of others.
It will only incite a rebuttal war in the voting thread and is not acting in a professional manner.
I could very easily say that you forget your own words Bocchiere. That when Ice says that you try to enforce the wikia as law on the site and bullying others that your very words calling him a liar as exactly the sort of thing that is being said against you.
you have tried to enforce your edits into the reality of SL RP. Taking the swords away is not going to enforce your will on the RP? Yes...it most certainly is an attempt to change a pertinent aspect of the RP.
And then being subjected to your nasty remarks that you make all over the place, that really happens Bocchiere. If you can not see that...then I have to wonder why.
Do I really have to go and screen shot every instance of where you have lashed out nastily to others who will not agree with you? Xia could not even post a link to this discussion in Mission HQ without being cursed at and flipped the bird by you.
Do I really have to go and screen shot every instance where you have flamed against me instead of directing your responses to the specifics of my complaints? Tell me, when I say to you that: " The rules for how the swords are handled have been in place since 2010, as per the SSM site. WAY before this wikia was even created. Now why then do those not part of that elite group have say so over how they are handling their organization? Hell, their own Mizukage doesn't even have ruler-ship over how they pick and choose their members or who gets what sword. And yet some admin on a wikia for record keeping does? Please...
Your response is this: "Kayenta you are the biggest hypocrite in the history of this site. All you do is talk about freedom to rp, you can't control our rp. But what you really mean is freedom to rp anything YOU want. Anything that falls within the circle of what you approve of should be an irrevocable right to everyone, and any rp you don't agree with should be banned completely. I hate to break it to you but that is literally the opposite of freedom. Everything you stand for is a lie.
Thankfully we all either know this by now, our are within your group of like-minded people and just don't care. So, other than maybe burning a new hole in the atmosphere your constant expulsion of hot air and other toxic fumes, your ranting is never going to achieve anything but making everyone wish you'd finally shut up."
And need I seriously remind you that for the crime of not agreeing with you on a point about the bijuu I was treated to this slur?
"You are stuck so far on Warren's %$#$% that if he was going to charge $100 for challenges you would applaud"
That is abuse. I do not know why you call Ice a liar for saying you bully people. It's fact.
Do I really have to go and copy paste your words from this very own thread where you are laying down the law as you see fit? I find it absurd that you have forgotten where you said these things. If it was a month ago or a year sure, but it hasn't even been a week.
This is not the behavior of a professional and competant Administrator. You do not have to be a jerk to moderate issues as they arrise. And that is the whole complaint against you.
Perhaps the best thing you can do for your case at the moment is to stop commenting.
I was calling him a lair for saying I tried to force people to do anything on SL about the wiki changes when I've explicity said the opposite. I can literally say, "I don't care what you do on SL." and be accussed of trying to manipulat what people do on SL anyway.
Do I get mean? Yes. Sorry. But as I've said before you Kay, and most of the rest of you are guilty of the same things you accuse me of time and time again. I don't save the pm's or anything because I don't need proof to convince anyone from SL that we're all jerks. You're all just better at not being as public about it as me and that's really what it comes down to each time. If that's going to be enough to end me than I guess I don't belong here. Like I said we'll find out where everything lands sooner rather than later.
As I recall the last pm comversation you and i had was very social and friendly. And do you know why it went that way Bocc?
Because I was not disagreeing with you on anything.
Why am I trying not to behave like a jerk in public?
well gee, because its wrong and I don't like being a jerk?
You should give that a try. You know I have lots of friends on SL that disagree with my views on RP and how things should be handled. Hell, even Asadi votes 2/3 of the time against all my propositions. And yet he never behaves like you do. He never curses me, he never belittles my intelligence, he never gets his friends to gang up on me. He never humiliates me in public everywhere I go. Is this because he is an amazing person? Probably. Is he unique? NO! Warren and I disagree all the time. He is not trashing and cursing me. Koji and I disagree. Mioku and I disagree. Yomi and I see things in different perspectives. Gitsune and I have not seen eye to eye on a number of issue. Kite and I have quite different ideas on how things should be handled. And the list goes on and on. Somehow, these people and I managed to have different opinions without trying to destroy each other. I think its called respect toward others. And yes...I remember not being able to post anywhere on SL without you trolling me to the point of tears.
Why? Because I disagreed with you.
And do not be coy. You make a claim on here, then anyone who doesn't abide by that claim or that ruling will receive the same treatment. And that has most certainly happened and I do not see that strategy of dealing with adversity suddenly disappearing from your mind set.
This behavior of yours seriously must stop.
Well excuse me, but after over 2 years of these continous episodic issues from you, I believe that waiting for you to turn over a new leaf is masochistic of us all. It is time to remove you as admin and take away from you whatever flimsy legitimacies for your mandates this wikia confers through implied concent or otherwise.
And you know what is a huge point you are missing? I AM NOT THE ADMIN OF THIS SITE> Your behavior should be exemplary because of the duty you have to behave professionally.
But you did disagree with people enough to get removed as a GM and such. Is that relevant? No. But if we're going to discuss the full gambit of everything we've done over the past decade why not?
It doesn't really matter what I say since you keep bringing it back to, "And I won't believe what you say anyway." I don't care at this point. I'm no worse than any one of you, just different, and I'll accept whatever outcome we get.